tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30740798.post7324780484008922072..comments2024-03-22T01:17:01.667-05:00Comments on Georgette's Jiu Jitsu World: Can Keith Owens really handle women in jiu jitsu?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30740798.post-88045537648286315282015-02-27T00:40:54.753-06:002015-02-27T00:40:54.753-06:00On the ADCV Facebook today there is a debate going...On the ADCV Facebook today there is a debate going on about Keith Ownens' public statement today that he is "disavowing" one of his blue belts (not taking the belt away) . No one commenting nows who the blue belt is or what the offense was. I was only moderately interested until someone posted a link to a Facebook post that purports to cite the other side of the story. Interestingly, it's a female student (most of the comments assumed male). I just thought it was a strange coincidence. I would post the link here but I'm on a phone. You can go to ADCC Facebook and read comments as well as see the other persons side on IslandTopTeam Facebook.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11073402434884956063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30740798.post-11790448151197871432013-03-30T13:44:06.502-05:002013-03-30T13:44:06.502-05:00Wow, that was pure awesome.
Wow, that was pure awesome.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30740798.post-32107876016428525752013-02-26T16:09:30.651-06:002013-02-26T16:09:30.651-06:00I ended up writing a blog post to help martial art...I ended up writing a blog post to help martial arts instructors to run a more female friendly school in response to Keith's blog post. I hope this helps improve things for women martial artists everywhere. :) http://pacificwavejiujitsu.com/blog/how-to-run-a-female-friendly-martial-arts-school/Lori (Richmond/Vancouver BC Jiu-jitsu/martial arts instructor)http://www.pacificwavejiujitsu.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30740798.post-60991696223135857952013-02-21T20:40:15.495-06:002013-02-21T20:40:15.495-06:00In my head, those attitudes have no place in marti...In my head, those attitudes have no place in martial arts, and I can't comprehend that folks like that exist.<br />I train karate, judo & jujitsu - and they are all awesome, welcoming to women, encouraging, and I seldom experience problems. When I do, it is mostly from new men - never from the instructors. And, mostly, they come around.<br />Unfortunately, I've been to schools that felt like a Male Only zone. I trained with a school in the UK for a few weeks on vacation - I was absolutely AMAZED that their black belt class had NO women (given that they were a prominent London school). I felt pressured from all sides by an excess of testosterone.<br />I'm used to being the only woman. Have been the only woman very often - it isn't a big deal. But at this school, the attitude was that I couldn't keep up... because I'm a woman. The level they pushed me at - harder than necessary, a pushing-to-break pushing - made me feel like this was a BoyzClub, and I wasn't wanted. Fortunately, it pissed me off and made me rise above - but what if I couldn't? It wasn't until I proved that I COULD keep up, and that there were things that I could bring to the table that they backed off and said "you know, I wish you would join our team, we really need a woman!" And I thought - dear lord, men! You wonder why you don't have women!? You're treating them as inferior, expressing distaste at training with one, and make it clear that if she gets in the way of your training (say, can't keep up the speed/strength, is intimidated by your glares, asks questions, or is uncomfortable) - she isn't welcome.<br />It was BIZARRE. I'd heard about schools like that. And I know that working with men's preconceptions is always just Part Of The Game - some will treat you like a flower, some are gonna try and crush you, some are going to scowl when they are partnered with you because they think you won't work as hard. But when it fills the whole school, top down? Its sad. Pathetic. Depressing. <br />It is particularly difficult for women to start a grappling art - it is scary. I remember how scary it was. And the only reason I kept coming back was because my instructor treated me like I was as capable as the men. He expected the same of me as anyone else. And made sure, every step of the way, that we all knew I had my strengths (and weaknesses...). Like that I might be shorter than EVERYONE else I train with, but that means I have a lower center of gravity, and so I'm more able to counter, avoid, and complete certain throws. Or that I'm flexible and small, so I can wiggle and slide out of things - regardless of the strength of the hulks I roll with - because of it. He made sure that we all knew that being a woman in martial arts was a good thing, and that we have special strengths. And so I stayed. Our club has slowly grown - and is now only slightly male-heavy. I like to THINK I bring something to the club that my male partners can learn from. At the very least it becomes a "Sarah is only XX pounds, but look what she can do with someone twice her size!" kind of welcoming to show new, shy women that judo/jujitsu can be fun for women too.<br />Without that supportive atmosphere, I could see women being scared away. For a hundred different reasons, lots of which you touched on. A club that makes all feel welcome and supported is a good club. That's all I'm saying.<br />If we're not sticking around you're probably too damn intense, not very friendly, and you need to pick up a sense of humor. Sorry for the rant - I visited that school in December, and its been burning a hole in my chest ever since.Sarah Snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30740798.post-38198557690153207952013-02-21T10:55:34.598-06:002013-02-21T10:55:34.598-06:00Of course I roll with women differently than men, ...Of course I roll with women differently than men, just like I roll differently with some men than I do with others and they with me. A 230lb black belt wont fight me like Im Roger Gracie.<br /><br />I hate to see this stuff, this back and forth, I really do. <br /><br />I want where I train to be accessible to everyone, that means your greatest opponent is yourself along with fear and doubt and overcoming obstacles in our journey.<br /><br />Cant stand UFC uber He men and everyday is friggin Mundials types. I also cant stand a woman who tisks and storms off the mat in a huff because I accidentally hit her in the face while rolling.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30740798.post-47079206028636091542013-02-21T10:14:34.834-06:002013-02-21T10:14:34.834-06:00No, I didn't say "all" white belt wo...No, I didn't say "all" white belt women. I was speaking of the two ladies who attended this particular women-only class maybe once a month, visibly did not care for it, and did not continue with it. It was hard to work with them because no matter the enthusiasm level of the instructor and the other ladies, and myself, they were just not 'into' it. <br /><br />There have been many whitebelt women before and after who have been a delight.Georgettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08705282002904234217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30740798.post-40592656079857052442013-02-20T22:40:20.269-06:002013-02-20T22:40:20.269-06:00@Brandon Zeciri, I've seen countless men come ...@Brandon Zeciri, I've seen countless men come through the doors of the gym thinking they would make everybody "bear witness to the fitness of the modern warrior" only to have them get humbled, discover its not as easy as it looks on t and never show up again. I've also seen A LOT of women stick around and become champions in bjj and mma.<br /><br />I'm not surprised Keith Owen can't retain female students. There's clearly some issues going on between him and the other gender. The problem is further underscored by his complete inability to handle criticism on his blogpost. Instead casting the blame out maybe he should examine the way he runs his shop.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30740798.post-21888639826455123432013-02-20T18:27:35.726-06:002013-02-20T18:27:35.726-06:00Keith Owen: below average student of Pedro's i...Keith Owen: below average student of Pedro's in Utah who benefited from the "Open up an academy under Pedro Sauer Black Belt Plan." <br /><br />This article and his cynical propping up of the fraud Ari Bolden should be enough to make this guy irrelevant in BJJ circles forever. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30740798.post-59110815546949426652013-02-20T16:24:41.113-06:002013-02-20T16:24:41.113-06:00Georgette, thanks so much for writing another grea...Georgette, thanks so much for writing another great reaction article. You've made so many wonderful points but unfortunately, I feel it will go to waste on Keith himself. Based on his extremely underwhelming and condescending responses to people's comments, I've drawn the conclusion that he's a real smug, arrogant piece of work. His response to Lauren's request for him to address my article was "ya..I read that. I don't agree. =)...Thank you Lauren." And then he replied to the one woman who didn't attack him with "She Beast...Now that's a name that can probably be tough enough to get a BJJ BlackBelt. =)"<br /><br />Basically, he's dismissing everyone who disagrees with him or writing very condescending one-liner that indicate none of the points being made have actually hit home. I was genuinely interested to see how he would address my article, or Julia's, or now yours, but it doesn't look like he's capable of pulling his head out of his ass long enough to do that.<br /><br />The most infuriating part is how he makes these fact that he makes these broad, rude generalizations, not accounting for 1) the possibility that some of the women who start out at his school simply move to another gym instead of quitting altogether or 2) the fact that women all over the world are getting increasingly involved at OTHER gyms. Even if the lack of female student retention truly isn't his fault, what gives him the right to apply his experiences to women everywhere? Hell, at my own gym, for a long time there were only 3 girls (including myself)...one moved but is still training hard elsewhere. And now in addition to me and the purple belt, there are 5-6 girls regularly showing up for the fundamentals class. Doesn't sound like women are quitters to me...they've certainly stuck around longer than a number of men I've seen who come in for a while and then lose interest or can't hack it.<br /><br />I wrote one last pissed off comment on Keith's blog and have resolved to no longer look at that page because arguing with stupid people only raises my blood pressure. But as I said to him (and his wife, supposedly), I don't live anywhere near Idaho, so I couldn't care less how they run their boys club. However, for him to use his own gym's failings to go online and make highly insulting generalizations about all women in the sport, who are working their asses off as much as or more than any of his male students, is just unacceptable.Reesehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09989503036144634088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30740798.post-17854403112431717402013-02-20T16:19:46.902-06:002013-02-20T16:19:46.902-06:00A great article by Val Worthington here:
http://b...A great article by Val Worthington here:<br /><br />http://breakingmuscle.com/womens-fitness/my-name-valerie-and-i-may-be-sexist-i-m-working-itGeorgettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08705282002904234217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30740798.post-14679161895031969382013-02-20T16:10:25.354-06:002013-02-20T16:10:25.354-06:00I will simply say this.
I recently went to a NAG...I will simply say this. <br />I recently went to a NAGA tournament where there was no more than 10 females competing, my wife being the highest rank there to compete (blue belt).<br /><br />There were hundreds of men there competing. Fact of the matter is there are far more men that train BJJ than there are women.<br /><br />And let me say this... There are competitive schools out there that I have trained at and they train HARD - they had no women in their classes. They allow women to train, but they treat them equal to the men. The women that have walked in the door simply could not hack it, or didn't like taking the punishment.<br /><br />It's nothing against women, it just is what it is. There are females out there that certainly can hack it, my wife being one of them. No matter how bad she got crushed she still went back (and continues to today).<br /><br />But the fact still remains that I have seen far too many women coming in expecting it to be like their kids Taekwondo class... it's just not the same.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15723332706279573719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30740798.post-71112621284957311062013-02-20T16:08:49.996-06:002013-02-20T16:08:49.996-06:00Georgette
The two other Owen's are not Keith...Georgette <br /><br />The two other Owen's are not Keith's son's. They are no relation to him. <br /><br />The other Owen's are Matt and Dylan Owen (father and son).<br /><br />Just to clarifyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30740798.post-89017373011671315012013-02-20T15:55:44.277-06:002013-02-20T15:55:44.277-06:00Thank you Lori and John!!
Also, Julia wrote a nic...Thank you Lori and John!!<br /><br />Also, Julia wrote a nice one http://jiujiubjj.com/2013/02/19/women-and-bjj-quitting/<br /><br />as did Reese <br /><br />http://reeseny.blogspot.com/2013/02/stripes-and-sexism.html<br /><br />and SheBeast<br /><br />http://shebeastbjjhistory.blogspot.com/2013/02/re-keith-owens-can-women-really-handle.html<br /><br /><br /><br />Georgettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08705282002904234217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30740798.post-25032083778332381732013-02-20T15:42:53.662-06:002013-02-20T15:42:53.662-06:00Forgot to mention. Yours is not even the first art...Forgot to mention. Yours is not even the first article of objection I've seen about that blog post. http://ottawabjjwomen.com/women-can-handle-brazilian-jiu-jitsu/Lori (Richmond/Vancouver BC Jiu-jitsu/martial arts instructor)http://www.pacificwavejiujitsu.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30740798.post-29223799343357430502013-02-20T15:39:51.466-06:002013-02-20T15:39:51.466-06:00Yep. Sexism in the BJJ world. No shocker there. It...Yep. Sexism in the BJJ world. No shocker there. It is, however, surprising that someone would post it in a blog so openly like that. Guess he didn't realize how it would come across or that he has some sexist attitudes. Ah well. The first step is awareness, so thank you for helping him and other BJJ peeps to become more aware with your bold response. :)Lori (Richmond/Vancouver BC Jiu-jitsu/martial arts instructor)http://www.pacificwavejiujitsu.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30740798.post-79410988019988734352013-02-20T15:34:20.003-06:002013-02-20T15:34:20.003-06:00I treat everyone I roll with differently. Smaller...I treat everyone I roll with differently. Smaller guys (or girls) I use less strength, ballistic guys I play more defensive, smashers I avoid altogether or plead with them to take it easy, etc. Women are no different. Treat them the same as any rolling partner, that is to say, do what it takes for you both to learn. <br /><br />As for the pregnant jibe, the last time I looked it takes two to make a baby. Just because Dad isn't at your club doesn't mean he isn't curtailing his activity somewhere else to help out. And if he is at your club and he hasn't eased up on his rolling...well, you be the judge.<br /><br />We have long term women at our club. Fewer women than men but they are as tough as the men. Or as "not tough" because I can tell you I am one guy who is injury adverse. Takes to long to heal after 50. So if one woman quit, maybe she didn't like it, if all of them are quitting, the common denominator is elsewhere.<br /><br />What the F is with men that they still have their heads so messed up about the opposite sex? Treat everyone like individuals and it's a lot easier to see we ALL have special needs and it has nothing do do with what we do or don't have between our legs.<br /><br />John McKayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11687748529545315570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30740798.post-58645398631612452512013-02-20T15:33:14.061-06:002013-02-20T15:33:14.061-06:00I treat everyone I roll with differently. Smaller...I treat everyone I roll with differently. Smaller guys (or girls) I use less strength, ballistic guys I play more defensive, smashers I avoid altogether or plead with them to take it easy, etc. Women are no different. Treat them the same as any rolling partner, that is to say, do what it takes for you both to learn. <br /><br />As for the pregnant jibe, the last time I looked it takes two to make a baby. Just because Dad isn't at your club doesn't mean he isn't curtailing his activity somewhere else to help out. And if he is at your club and he hasn't eased up on his rolling...well, you be the judge.<br /><br />We have long term women at our club. Fewer women than men but they are as tough as the men. Or as "not tough" because I can tell you I am one guy who is injury adverse. Takes to long to heal after 50. So if one woman quit, maybe she didn't like it, if all of them are quitting, the common denominator is elsewhere.<br /><br />What the F is with men that they still have their heads so messed up about the opposite sex? Treat everyone like individuals and it's a lot easier to see we ALL have special needs and it has nothing do do with what we do or don't have between our legs.<br /><br />John McKayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11687748529545315570noreply@blogger.com