Wednesday, January 08, 2014

Should tournaments allow TLI to compete?

I received this from a friend in November, but due to work and family obligations, I failed to write this up until now.

I offer this principled stand for your consideration... personally, I will not compete in any tournament that permits TLI competitors to fight.  At least that's my opinion, thus far.  What do you think?  Comments are moderated, be polite. 

---- his story follows ----

Today (11/12/13) at 1:16 PM CST, I called the phone number provided on NAGA’s “Contact Us” page: 860-295-0403. I had attempted to call at 5:46 the previous evening, but got no answer and felt that leaving a message would do nothing.

A man answered the phone; if he gave me his name, I do not remember it. I introduced myself as a former competitor and asked him why Team Lloyd Irvin was still permitted to compete at his events. He asked me why they wouldn’t be.

I listed various reasons, among them Lloyd’s support of the rapists, Nyjah Easton’s questionable testimony, D.J. Jackson being a fugitive sex offender, and Lloyd’s massive liens from the IRS. He responded by telling me that he was not a judge or jury.

After a brief period of awkward silence, I asked him if it even bothered him what Lloyd had done. He responded by asking me what had held up in a court of law. I reminded him that D.J. Jackson was indicted and pled down, Nyjah’s testimony was on record, Lloyd’s liens were public knowledge, and that even if Schulz and Maldonado were acquitted, they still left an unconscious, bruised, half-naked girl in a 38 degree concrete parking garage.

When I also mentioned Lloyd’s SEO efforts, he spoke up, informing me that he was familiar with them. He told me he didn’t see the logic of banning a whole team based on one person’s actions, saying an NFL team isn’t banned from the league if a coach does something wrong. I reminded him that Penn State was ravaged by sanctions after the Sandusky incident. He said that the same response also occurred for gambling and that “it’s a totally different world” (direct quote).

As an aside, I am not sure what he meant here; if he was saying that the pros are different from college, he would be implying that NAGA is like the NFL, which is a frank overstatement of the former’s importance. He may have been saying that NAGA is a completely different world from football, which raises the question of why he made the analogy in the first place.

He concluded by telling me that he was “not having this conversation” and hung up. Being rather slow on the draw, I settled for giving the resulting static a piece of my mind.

I do not know if I spoke to Kipp Kollar, Joe Cuff, or Ryan Cook, all three of whom are listed on the contact page. In any case, I will no longer be competing in their events and will advise others to bow out as well. From what I can gather, their logic is every bit as poor as their morality, and if there’s one thing I hate more than bad people, it’s bad people who lack the capacity to at least somewhat justify being bad people..

8 comments:

Stephen Kim said...

Good for you for calling and keeping the issue fresh. The more people call in the better. The kind of abuse that occurs at certain schools needs to be kept in the public eye. If the stories about how the gym is run are true, this guy needs to be run out of town, so to speak.

Jenn F. said...

Here is my view on the whole thing. I would not train with LI. I question the brains of anyone who has chosen to train with him at this point. I do not know why anyone would want to walk into a tournament and advertise their affiliation with such a low life. I would love it if somehow every person who walks into his gym could know the full story about him. Beyond all that, people are free to make their own choices, and that includes being douchbags. As much as we all hate the fact that he even still has a team, his transgressions really have nothing to do with competing in BJJ. Hopefully, it will eventually regulate itself anyway, as in, TLI teammates will get such a negative reception everywhere they go that they will eventually decide to train elsewhere.

That being said, I do not blame you for not wanting to support any tournament his team is involve in.

Jenn F. said...

Here is my view on the whole thing. I would not train with LI. I question the brains of anyone who has chosen to train with him at this point. I do not know why anyone would want to walk into a tournament and advertise their affiliation with such a low life. I would love it if somehow every person who walks into his gym could know the full story about him. Beyond all that, people are free to make their own choices, and that includes being douchbags. As much as we all hate the fact that he even still has a team, his transgressions really have nothing to do with competing in BJJ. Hopefully, it will eventually regulate itself anyway, as in, TLI teammates will get such a negative reception everywhere they go that they will eventually decide to train elsewhere.

That being said, I do not blame you for not wanting to support any tournament his team is involved in.

The truth be told said...

I really don't think that anyone really gives a hoot if you compete in their tournaments. And he's right. you do not eleiminate a whole team because a teammate or coach has done or been accused of doing something immoral. If you got a problem with Lloyd Irving you shopuld go down to Lloyd Irvings school and tell him face to face. Stop hiding behind blogs. Go right to the source that you have an issue with.

Joe Gumagi said...

this is EXTREMELY discouraging to female fighters.
Rape is wring and bad behavior should be shunned and punished, not rewarded.
This sport is supposed to be equal and for every one and there is way to many straight disrespectful things happening that make female fighters feel unwelcome. Sexist comments, rapes where every turns the cheek like its ok, Men only gyms etc.. . That doesnt happen in regular society.
WE ALL KNOW THIS WRONG!
This is ridiculous! No one wanna do whats right .. Like its a jock culture bro fest only. This is supposed to be progressive training not ego, chauvinism & keep your foot down on females unless your using them for sex + entertainment.
And no one is hiding behind blogs.
I have no interest in going to Llyod and saying anything .. because he is rapist!!
DEr- why would I try to converse or reason with a sociapathic .. narcistic rapist?? @ Truthbetold..


You go find him & be a tip rider in person. no one cares if you compete or not either.. loser


42cf7b98-7aa2-11e3-956e-000bcdcb8a73 said...

I don't think Truth be Told is correct in his assertion that physical contact is the way to dispute ideas. Confronting him face to face does what?

I'm curious about why TLI and his IRS issues are a problem to us? Why do we care?

Support of rapists? You mean the one guy who was found innocent YET YOU STILL CALL HIM A RAPIST? The other guy who we don't know the story of yet? Not even a court acquitting someone is enough for you, YOU STILL CALL HIM THAT.

Really it's personal attack after personal attack with this blog and I'm sick of reading it. Anyone who disagrees with you is immediately wrong.

I'll tell you one thing, if I ever see you or anyone associated with you I will avoid you guys, and be unfriendly at worst. Why?

Because it's no longer just about BJJ anymore, it's about bringing your ideas to the mat and forcing everyone to abide by them. If you have a crusade against rape do it outside of the mats. If you don't like someone avoid them, what if I want to fight TLI competitors? Because YOU people hate him, you start asking for something that affects us all.

"This sport is supposed to be equal and for every one and there is way to many straight disrespectful things happening that make female fighters feel unwelcome. Sexist comments, rapes where every turns the cheek like its ok, Men only gyms etc.. ."

So if they feel unwelcome it's our fault? Sexist comments, to who? To sensitive people? Who turns the cheek to rape?

Sigh. I love how you are now moderating the comments now. "Disagree with me and I'll censor you! If you say something I don't like, I'll try to find your personal info and tell people you are a rape apologist!"

The worst part is you do this knowing it will damage a persons reputation with just the accusation.

You want to divide the BJJ world and make it a little feminist battleground, so be it. We all know who will win though. It won't be the little pushovers who cater to women that want to feel "comfortable" can't take internet jokes, overall have a problem with freedom of speech.

It'll be the men and women who focus on what matters. Technique.

42cf7b98-7aa2-11e3-956e-000bcdcb8a73 said...

I don't think Truth be Told is correct in his assertion that physical contact is the way to dispute ideas. Confronting him face to face does what?

I'm curious about why TLI and his IRS issues are a problem to us? Why do we care?

Support of rapists? You mean the one guy who was found innocent YET YOU STILL CALL HIM A RAPIST? The other guy who we don't know the story of yet? Not even a court acquitting someone is enough for you, YOU STILL CALL HIM THAT.

Really it's personal attack after personal attack with this blog and I'm sick of reading it. Anyone who disagrees with you is immediately wrong.

I'll tell you one thing, if I ever see you or anyone associated with you I will avoid you guys, and be unfriendly at worst. Why?

Because it's no longer just about BJJ anymore, it's about bringing your ideas to the mat and forcing everyone to abide by them. If you have a crusade against rape do it outside of the mats. If you don't like someone avoid them, what if I want to fight TLI competitors? Because YOU people hate him, you start asking for something that affects us all.

"This sport is supposed to be equal and for every one and there is way to many straight disrespectful things happening that make female fighters feel unwelcome. Sexist comments, rapes where every turns the cheek like its ok, Men only gyms etc.. ."

So if they feel unwelcome it's our fault? Sexist comments, to who? To sensitive people? Who turns the cheek to rape?

Sigh. I love how you are now moderating the comments now. "Disagree with me and I'll censor you! If you say something I don't like, I'll try to find your personal info and tell people you are a rape apologist!"

The worst part is you do this knowing it will damage a persons reputation with just the accusation.

You want to divide the BJJ world and make it a little feminist battleground, so be it. We all know who will win though. It won't be the little pushovers who cater to women that want to feel "comfortable" can't take internet jokes, overall have a problem with freedom of speech.

It'll be the men and women who focus on what matters. Technique.

Stephen Kim said...

I don't think its all just about a few isolated incidents of alleged rape. Based on what people from his gym have said, the way the gym is run in such a manner that it's conducive to abuse. For anyone who's been around the block in martial arts, you've probably witnessed at least one place where the head coach/master runs the place like a cult. Encouraging tournaments to ban these kinds of schools is actually in the best interest of those students if it gets them out of that environment. I'd also like to point out that South Africa and Afghanistan have both been banned from the olympics, one for apartheid and another for oppression of women.