Wednesday, February 12, 2014

Chat with the author of the rape apologia on BJPenn.com, Daneul Summers

·         Conversation started Tuesday
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2/11, 9:34pm
Hey... just wondering if you're willing to talk with me about a piece you wrote for BJPenn.com?
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 9:37pm
Yeah sure. What's up?
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 9:38pm
I'm talking about your piece regarding the civil suit stemming from the NYE [ALLEGED] rape by Schultz and Maldonado...
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 9:39pm

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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 9:39pm
I'm just curious about a lot of things you wrote in it...
who did you get your legal information from?
I don't mean the legal status of the criminal and civil proceedings. I mean your interpretations of the legal proceedings and the rationales for parties' choices.
hello?
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 10:11pm
Sorry. I was in the middle of cooking dinner.
I used some insensitive wording in that article. I apologize to anyone that I offended by writing that story.
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 10:32pm
Hey no worries, I'm on east coast time, didn't mean to interrupt.
Have you considered writing a public retraction and apology?
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 10:36pm
It's all good bub. I've greatly considered it, but I've decided- with the advisement of my publicist- that what I said wasn't a big enough deal to have to. Or so I thought. Listen, like I said, I used an insensitive tone when writing that story. However, I don't believe that it's necessary to print an apology, and a retraction is out of my hands.
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 10:37pm
Your publicist is leading you astray, bub...
But of course it's your choice.
Do you plan on a career in writing?
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2/11, 10:38pm
I do.
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 10:39pm
Then you realize not only the poor editing, but the insanely insensitive rape apologetics, will likely haunt you.

2/11, 10:40pm
Then at least I'll be remembered for something!
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 10:40pm
Oh that's funny srsly
Well played
Who else do you write for
I'm assuming not just the one site?
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 10:41pm
Yup. Just the one site. I'm working full time and going to school.
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 10:42pm
I hear doesn't pay well
One reason I continue working as a state employee (death penalty prosecutor)
What are you studying
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 10:44pm
Not at the moment. But I'm trying my best to get a foot in the door. I'm currently studying creative writing for the entertainment industry.
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 10:44pm
Where are you in school
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 10:45pm
Taking online classes at Full Sail University.
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 10:45pm
Really?
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 10:45pm
Listen, I didn't mean to offend anyone when writing that article.
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 10:46pm
Oh? Had you read a bunch of the background when you wrote it?
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 10:46pm
I used information readily available online. My wording was insensitive, but I assure you that I in no way condone the actions of those accused.
And yes really. Why do you ask?
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 10:47pm
Just never heard of doing online writing classes
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 10:48pm
And not extensive research. What was necessary to write the article and cover the portion of the story I was assigned.
It's a good school. Happy to be going there.
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 10:49pm
I imagine once done, you don't pursue a piece further...
But have you read Jake Rossen's work or Brent Brookhouse's work on these situations?
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 10:50pm
If I'm interested I do. I'm a fight fan. So I try to keep up with the news.
Not for this particular story, no. The story didn't catch my interest strong enough for me to pursue it further.
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 10:51pm
Huh. Ok.
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 10:52pm
Meaning...
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 10:53pm
I suspect if you read Rossen (The Cult of Lloyd Irvin) or my story stream on my blog or Brent's on Bloody Elbow, you might see it was a much more interesting story.
But I am biased
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 10:54pm
I'm sure it was. Again, I didn't mean to seem so insensitive.
How so?
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 10:55pm
Obviously I think it's interesting, having been writing about it over a year now
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 10:57pm
Very true. That story was the first I had even heard of the situation. I obviously didn't realize how deeply involved readers were with that story.
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 10:58pm
May I ask how old you are
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2/11, 10:59pm
26
Yourself?
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:00pm
41
I asked because this story would, I think, be draped in red flags to a more mature journalist
(I worked as a journalist before and during law school)
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:01pm
I'm just going to chock [sic] it up to being young and inexperienced and take this all as a learning experience
I should have been more aware of the importance of the story presented to me. For that blindness I cannot be apologetic enough.
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:06pm
For the record, I am posting this conversation in its entirety so your apology might be read by the survivor and other survivors, perhaps it will help ease the pain they felt.
Unless you would like to write a public one?
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:08pm
I would have liked you to tell me that you planned on sharing it  ;)
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:09pm
If you prefer I not, you're welcome to write your own, but it is nice that you apologized at least to someone, to at least one rape survivor...
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:14pm
You can go ahead. I apologize once again to anyone that I have offended. No creature ever deserves to be mistreated or abused. My whole heart goes out to anyone who has ever been violated by another. I'm in fact a sweet kid. I never meant to turn the stomachs or sting the hearts of my readers. They are my livelihood and I want them to see my name and recognize it in a positive sense with warm and admiration. Consider this my formal apology to anyone that I hurt or angered in any way.
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:15pm
Does that mean you think it's good news they won't be on a sex offender registry?
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:15pm
The only thing that I ask is that you do not bash BJPenn.com. I love those guys. My publicist is one of best guys I've ever met.
And there is the insensitive wording.
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:17pm
Well, they only should be embarrassed for the horrible editing and permitting so many errors of grammar, spelling etc in the final product.
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:17pm
Hell no I don't. Ok meant that they would see it as good news, not that it is in fact good news.
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:17pm
How about the timing of the civil suit?
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:17pm
I have been trying my best to remedy that within my own work.
Meaning?
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:18pm
(You'll recall your article did not say that they'd SEE it as good news, but that it WAS good news)
Your comments about her timing of the civil suit as intending to drag Lloyd Irvin through the mud as long as possible
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:19pm
Good news for them.
Basically saying that it was lucky for them.
Which was her intention. Why wouldn't it be? They deserve to be dragged through the mud.
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:21pm
Did you interview her?
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:21pm
I feel like the insensitive wording I used caused readers to twist my words.
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:21pm
Or any lawyers, to explain to you why the civil suit is filed when was?
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2/11, 11:21pm
Come on now.
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:22pm
Because I interviewed her....
So did Brent and Jake....
And you're making pretty big claims about her intent, so I assume... surely you wouldn't unless you'd actually talked to her?
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:23pm
And I'm a broke kid from a small town in Indiana...
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:23pm
Do you mean you think we paid her?
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:23pm
Now I simply feel like you're beating me down for a 250 word news blast.
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:24pm
Nah.
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:24pm
What? Lol. Wow...
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:24pm
There's much better news tonight
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:24pm
I'm implying that I no way have the means to be able to interview her.
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:24pm
Mateo Maldonado, the models, and Gotham, for three
You have the internet. And a phone. That's all you need.
You think I hop on planes.... ha state employee!
If you feel beaten, perhaps it's because I'm trying to show you that your errors weren't just sensitivity issues, but actual fundamental flaws in logic and factual knowledge, which could've been avoided with a little legwork....
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:27pm
Ma'am. It was a 250 word news blast. My job was to simply inform our readers about the civil suit. I have apologized time and time again for the insensitivity of my wording and tone in said article. I have learned my lesson and will be much more conscious of the news I deliver.
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:28pm
Awesome, that was my goal. Thanks
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:28pm
No ma'am, thank you
Don't be too harsh on me?
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:29pm
I won't editorialize, your conversation stands on its own legs
I'll post tomorrow probably
Georgetteoden.blogspot.com
Tonight is all for Mateo
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:30pm
Enlighten me.
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:31pm
Go look?
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:33pm
Will do Goodnight Ms. Oden. Believe me I've taken everything we've talked about to heart. Thank you for being kind. I hope you have a wonderful night.
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:33pm
The previous post contains a link to my interview with Nick Schultz. You're welcome, take care and good luck!
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https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yj/r/mkUCm0hEprk.gif2/11, 11:34pm
You too!

7 comments:

throughjiujitsu said...

Now that is real-world jiu-jitsu. Thanks for that, Georgette.

JAB said...

Wow! Indicative of many his age I have met lately. Sad. These dolts will be running this country in no time.

ElfControl said...

Georgette, I hope that you come to terms with your own personal need for justice.

c567c082-95f6-11e3-94b1-000bcdca4d7a said...

Georgette, since you claim to know so much about the law then maybe you should stop defaming people who have been legally absolved of guilt by calling them "rapists." An impartial jury weighed all of the available evidence. You didn't. An impartial jury rendered a not guilty verdict while you seem to be hung up on the semantics of "innocence."

As a lawyer you should also be aware of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) which makes it illegal for people to do things not limited to stealing another person's images from Instagram and posting them on blogs without permission. I know that Google, the owner of Blogger.com, understands the legality of the DMCA and won't hesitate to remove your hack-job of a blog for violating the terms of service.

Jacob Shroyer said...

Georgette, can you delete ^ that guys comment as well as mine complaining about it. My head hurts because it exists in the world.

Georgette said...

Jacob, I hear you. But I'm leaving it up. Sorry :)

But now I want to respond to 718breez or whoever he is...

Number one, you obviously haven't consulted a copyright attorney to discover why your DMCA argument fails. Please do.

Number two, while I'll leave the most gaping omission on your part for that lawyer to clear up, I will offer a few other thoughts for your consideration. Note this is not legal advice ;) You could have discovered this for yourself if you knew how to work the magic of "google." Perhaps you've heard of it?

Fair use is a limitation and exception to the exclusive right granted by copyright law to the author of a creative work. In United States copyright law, fair use is a doctrine that permits limited use of copyrighted material without acquiring permission from the rights holders. Examples of fair use include commentary, search engines, criticism, parody, news reporting, research, teaching, library archiving and scholarship. It provides for the legal, unlicensed citation or incorporation of copyrighted material in another author's work under a four-factor balancing test.

17 U.S.C. § 107: Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 17 U.S.C. § 106 and 17 U.S.C. § 106A, In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include:

--the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
--the nature of the copyrighted work;
--the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
--the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

Also, your use of 17 U.S.C. § 512(c) takedown notice procedures may subject you to civil liability and penalties. Congress intended § 512(c) to be used as a shield to protect their copyrights. Lenz v. Universal Music, Corp. represents a judicial recognition of abuse as well as an effort to quash it by requiring copyright holders to consider the fair-use defense
prior to sending takedown notice. Lenz holds copyright holders
accountable for abusing § 512(c).

You might want to consider that before you start making threats.

JB said...

Georgette, I want to say thank you for the amazing courage you display with every entry about this case. At first, I shied away from reading stories about the rape because I didn't want to face the shock that it brought to the reality of this community that I had just begun to love. But I kept coming back and I have learned so much, not just about the case, but about how important it is to speak up, and to keep speaking up. Thank you, and down the road I'm sure Summers and more will be thankful as well for simply encountering you.